Pennsylvania Votes Forum

This would implement Gov. Rendell's deferral of payment on state pension obligations.

An actuarial note attached to the bill by PERC (the PA Public Employee Retirement Commission) estimates that the higher costs in later year will far outweigh the contribution reductions in earlier years - to the tune of an astonishing $52 billion over 30 years. That is an additional $52 billion that taxpayers - through higher state and school property taxes - will have to fork over to pay off the pension obligations, and this assumes an 8% annual return on investment.

The only excuse for hanging onto the defined benefit plans would be a lack of courage to tell the truth about the disaster that is ahead. HB 2497 does nothing about the funded ratio, except make it worse. I can understand why most House members voted for it. HB 2497 is a cynical ploy to con the taxpayers into thinking that the House has come up with a magical solution. Taxpayer contributions are decreased! Praise them! Laud them! They have saved us...BS!

The truth is that the way out is clear, very clear. We must have defined contribution plans. It is the best and only real solution to this mess. States with leaders know this, and are doing it.

John F. Brinson, Chairman  Lehigh Valley Tax Limitation Committee

The enormous ruse of HB 2497 is intensified when you take a look at a few member's campaign financial reports. See how much money was given by PSEA to Dwight Evans and others immediately prior to this vote in the House.

The time for a public uprising is now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0aUL3V4J7w

In regard to House Bill 2497 and the changes in retirement system for teachers, PA voters need to consider all facts.  Higher taxes   alarm most people, especially in economically distressed times; however, Pennsylvania citizens need to consider what their taxes buy. A good educational system is the major selling point for most realtors.  Although it sounds like a cliche, "You buy K-Mart; You get K-Mart."  Stripping the retirement system will only discourage the best qualitied young people from either avoiding educational careers completely or avoiding teaching in Pennsylvania. Altering the retirement system, as House Bill 2497 does, essentially attempts to maintain an inviting atmosphere, so qualified young people will continue to pursue educational careers.  It's sad that taxpayers can embrace the idea of compensation for quality people in the corporate world, however, reject the idea for the academic world.  If the brightest students opt to avoid pursuing  careers in education, only the mediocre will be left to teach our children.  I for one, do not want my child taught by someone who is average or below average in ability.  Through some reseach I found some interesting (disturbing) facts.  The fact is that teachers have always been contributing their fair share into the retirement fund; however, ten years ago the state informed school districts that they could opt out of contributing to the fund if they wanted because the fund was (at that point) very financially sound.  The advice was foolish.  The lack of school contributions greatly contributed to the current short fall. Now, that shortfall must be adjusted.  There are numerous ways in which that could be accomplished.  It need not be solely in higher taxes.  One idea might be to tap into the gaming table profits.  We pay our legislator to consider all viable options.  Now would be the time for them to do that.  Bill 2497 is a just bill.  Legislators need to find a way to fund it without over-burdening the individual tax payer.  The state helped to create this problem by giving school districts the option of not contributing to the fund, so the state legislators should be held accountable and find a reasonable solution that will ensure that PA tax payers maintain quality teachers.  Our children should not have to suffer for our state's mistakes.

I am pretty sure this poster is a teacher. I can tell you this for a fact: We have an OVER abundance of teachers in PA. I am a school board member and when we recently advertised 1 (one!!) elementary teaching position we received over 400 applications - over 400! The fact is that the state employees - teachers included -are out of touch with reality. Their pensions are THE best in the state. Far better than private industry offers their employees. Their pension places 100% of the risk on the tax payers - their employers. Private industry has moved decidedly to the defined contribution type of pension plan which means that their contributions are limited to a certain percentage each year. When the employee retires they have the option of a lifetime annuity or taking their lump sum. If they can't get as much as they thought they would from the annuity, they can take the lump sum and manage it themselves. This transfers the risk to the employee at retirement and let's the taxpayers off the hook - just as it occurs in "the real world". The previous poster stated that there were 'numerous' ways to cover the shortfall. Gaming profits were mentioned. How about this idea instead - modify the pension system to reflect the pension system by which your employers (taxpayers) are covered. This 'to hell with the state taxpayers" attitude has legs because our ELECTED officials see these employees as too large a block of voters to alienate. In other words, the ELECTED reps are more concerned with their jobs than they are with the very people who put them into office. This bill simply 'kicks the can' down the road for 30 - 30!! - years. Teachers work 185 days a year and make $60,000 - $70,000 a year just in the smaller districts. Do the math. $65,000/185 = $351 a day. Now add the health care benefits of $14,000/year for a family - another $75/day. BEFORE pension contributions, taxpayers pay $426 a day (7 hour days, by the way) - BEFORE pension contributions. Time for a change. Unfortunately, we have elected officials that participate in this same pension program. They showed 'valor' in 'making tough choices' by changing the pension system for FUTURE state employees - not themselves, of course. At the city, state, and federal levels we have been highjacked by our politicians. Throwing money at schools won't solve the problem with poor results. Changing the administrators AND the teachers will. This union protects and promotes mediocrity within it's ranks. Getting rid of tenure will do FAR more than throwing more money at the 'underpaid' teachers - who ONLY make $400 a day plus lifetime pension. 

With all due respect could you to answer the following questions. Can you provide documentation that says there is an over abundance of teachers in PA?  Just because you have a large number of applicants for a position does not mean that they are all from Pennsylvania.  What are the statistics for applications of other jobs in your community?  These are facts that readers need to know.  Prior to chosing to enter the educational system in PA teachers take the following items into consideration and then knowingly chose to pursue their career.  Teachers do not make overtime and put in more than 7 hrs a day to prepare lessons, grade assignments, return parent phone calls, enter grades and lesson plans online, respond to parent emails, monitor hallways during class changes, handle discipline effectively, be responsible for 180 + students each day, continue their education at night, or over their summer, pay for continued education credits, repay college loans, and be held accountable for the performance of all of their students, expecting them to be proficient in the subject areas of math and reading. 

Some people talk about running a school like a "business."   When a company orders 500 tubes of 304 stainless steel, all of the steel is the same and is espected to perform the same way during production.  Pieces of steel that are defective are sent back to the company which then replaces their product.   If you relate this example to education, the company would be the school,  the stainless steel tubes would represent the students,  teachers would represent the skill workers that convert the steel to the final product(graduates.) 

There are some major difference between the operation and expectation of a company and a school.   Schools have a supply of students that come from different backgrounds, and have different ability levels.  You can not send a student back and request another one because they refuse to do their homework, pay attention in class, or do not have the cognitive ability to perform in a regular classroom.  When you try to talk to the "suppliers," the students' parents, teachers often get the same response.  "It is your problem, you are the teacher make them learn."  If a company received a response like that they would simply drop that supplier and find a company that will provide a better produce.  Which is exactly what will have with school chose and charter schools.   Students will get kicked our and will have to attend another school.

What type of degrees do school board members have as there are no requirements.   A company has a board of directors that are experts in the way their company is run.   Many school board members have no clue how a school operates and have no formal training to make them quailified to make multi-million dollar decision for a school.  Would a company ever allow that? School boards meet twice a month, the first is for a worksession and the second is for the general meeting.  How much time have your school board members spent in the school during the day?  I beileve that school board members should be required to spend 2 days a month in the school working with a teacher for them to get a real understanding of the amount of effort that goes into teaching.  How many board members have been in the trenches with a principal or teacher, for a day, week, or a month?   Board members really need to experience this for themselves, kind of like that show "Undercover Boss."  Many board members have hidden agendas, and are not serving on the board for the right reason.(The purpose of a school board is to set policy.)  Every year there are trainings for school board members to attend  proffessional development work shops that help establish best practice as a board member.  Have you attended one of these conferences? How about the rest of your board members?  This should be a requirement, just as teachers are required to get act 48 hours.

Salaries- teachers at the top of their career make could make depending on the district $60-$70 thousand dollars per year.   According to (http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary-pennsylvania.html) the average beginning salary for a teacher in PA  is $34,140 it takes seven to ten years or for a professional teacher to work their way up to the  " average teacher salary" of $53,258.  The median income for ALL employees in the state of PA is $60,000 based on the mose recent statictis on (http://www.paworkstats.state.pa.us/analyzer/qsincome.asp?cat=INC&session=INCOME&subsession=04&areaname=&incsource=2&currsubsessavail=52,53,51,63,60,04,03,59,50,64,55,02,56,58,57,01,61,62,54), which is still higher than average teacher salary.  One of the benefits of  becoming a teacher in PA has always been the defined pension.  Teachers were often  made fun of by their friends that had higher paying jobs, bragged about getting paid overtime, and had defined contibution plans that allowed their pensions to sky rocket when economic times were good.  Teachers were willing to accept a guarenteed benefit that had a much lower percent yield but guarenteed them a defined pension regardless.  This they chose to continue in the field of education because they would at least have a guaranteed pension.   Now that the economy is in trouble, those same people that laughed at teachers for only having a defined benefit at a significant lower interest rate are now upset with teachers.

I encourage members of the community that think teaching is easy and that they are overpaid to get on a school's subsitute teaching list and be a substitue teacher for a week.  By the end of the week, they will have a new respect for teachers.  I knew a chemistry major whose kids attended a private school.  The school was having a problem with high teacher turnover, in the math and science area.  She was very confident in herself and though that it would be a breeze.  She did not last more than 3 months.  She did not realize all of the effort that goes into developing a lesson and setting up lab and activites.  She said, " I was putting in 10-12 hour days, and working to the point of exhaustion."   One thing that the general public often over looks is the "Show factor" involved in teaching.  Students have come to expect a show, to be entertained, and teachers that want their students to do well have to develop well thoughtout meaningful lessons that will get the students engaged, wanting to learn, and to retain information.  In a normal 8 period day an instructor will "perform" to 6-7 classes (45-50 minutes) back to back with less than 3 minutes to use the restroom, if they can, because they are required to monitor the halls and their classrooms to for fights and bullying.  Many districts give the teachers a 25 minute lunch, that includes the time it takes to walk to the faculty room, get in line to use the microwave(if needed), eat and then report back to their classroom.  This leaves the teacher with about 15 minutes to eat, relax, or make a personal phone call.

Please remember everyone has a choice when it comes to deciding on a career path and it is never too late.  You should really ask yourself the question are teachers overpaid? Or do they work hard for the salary that they earn?  In our county there are unskilled laborers that make $80,000-$90,000 per in a job that did not require formal education and could be taught to many people through on the job training. 

I never write on blogs like this because I have often found that people state information as fact, but can not back up their claims. 

To the author above.... What do you do for a living?  How long have you been working?  Do you have school loans to pay back?  Does your current job require that you have a college degree?   How much do you make per year?  What kind of pension and medical benefits do you have?  Did you graduate from high school?  Did you like high school or did a negative experience lead you to run for school board, because of a hidden agenda.

 Everyone agrees that teachers are REQUIRED to work 7 hours a day x 180 days in a school year which = 1260 hours.  This is considered full time and they are compensated, as someone else indicated maybe $60,000 per year (many more than that, some less).  In the rest of the world a full-time job is 2080 hours per year.  And while one writer argues that there are papers to be graded etc and so the work extends beyond the school day, in my calculations, they have 820 hours to put in to match their peers in the 'business' world.  Might I add that many of those who already work 2080 hours take additional work home during the week, take evening and w/e classes, etc that are over and above their paid work hours.  That situation is certainly not unique to teachers!

I don't know anyone who doesn't have to, or doesn't expect to contribute to their retirement or their healthcare.  It's ridiculous to expect a completely 'free ride' from the employer.  And I as the "employer", as a taxpayer, of the public employees in this state resent the entitlement attitude of expecting all those benefits without fair share contribution.  

 pensionreform:

You don't have your facts correct. I am a teacher and we do contribute a significant amount to our state retirement account. We are fortunate in that the district and the state contribute also. However, we do contribute over 1/3 of the amount we receive. A great retirement for us, no doubt, but by no means a free ride as you stated above.

Also, many districts in PA now have varying levels of required "premium share" for health care benefits. As costs have increased, locals have agreed to share the cost of health care with districts to varying degrees. I pay a premium share of $1300/ year, along with many deductibles for various things. Again, a great deal for us, but again, certainly not a "free ride" as you state.

Finally, if you think all this is so great, why don't you go to school and give it a try!!

blindscience:

With all due respect could you to answer the following questions. Can you provide documentation that says there is an over abundance of teachers in PA?

For starters PA is better than the national average student/teacher ratio which is on par with the ratio I saw at my private engineering university.  That's pretty good, certainly no reason to complain.  (NEA Rankings and Statistics 2008)

Just because you have a large number of applicants for a position does not mean that they are all from Pennsylvania.  What are the statistics for applications of other jobs in your community?  These are facts that readers need to know.  Prior to chosing to enter the educational system in PA teachers take the following items into consideration and then knowingly chose to pursue their career.  Teachers do not make overtime and put in more than 7 hrs a day to prepare lessons, grade assignments, return parent phone calls, enter grades and lesson plans online, respond to parent emails, monitor hallways during class changes, handle discipline effectively, be responsible for 180 + students each day, continue their education at night, or over their summer, pay for continued education credits, repay college loans, and be held accountable for the performance of all of their students, expecting them to be proficient in the subject areas of math and reading.

So what?  That's the job and I bet I could find a mechanic or assembly line worker that works harder and gets paid less.  What do you get for that job?  An average salary that is 132% the average workers salary in PA, 15 vacation weeks a year, loan forgiveness, differential pay, and only 3 years to tenure.  (NEA and certificationmaps.com)

Some people talk about running a school like a "business."   When a company orders 500 tubes of 304 stainless steel, all of the steel is the same and is espected to perform the same way during production.  Pieces of steel that are defective are sent back to the company which then replaces their product.   If you relate this example to education, the company would be the school,  the stainless steel tubes would represent the students,  teachers would represent the skill workers that convert the steel to the final product(graduates.) 

There are some major difference between the operation and expectation of a company and a school.   Schools have a supply of students that come from different backgrounds, and have different ability levels.  You can not send a student back and request another one because they refuse to do their homework, pay attention in class, or do not have the cognitive ability to perform in a regular classroom.  When you try to talk to the "suppliers," the students' parents, teachers often get the same response.  "It is your problem, you are the teacher make them learn."  If a company received a response like that they would simply drop that supplier and find a company that will provide a better produce.  Which is exactly what will have with school chose and charter schools.   Students will get kicked our and will have to attend another school.

Actually we used to hold kids back if they didn't perform up to standards.  Now its seems we aren't as strict due to reduced standards and this "social promotion" nonsense.  Talk about babying our kids to their own detriment!

What type of degrees do school board members have as there are no requirements.   A company has a board of directors that are experts in the way their company is run.   Many school board members have no clue how a school operates and have no formal training to make them quailified to make multi-million dollar decision for a school.  Would a company ever allow that? School boards meet twice a month, the first is for a worksession and the second is for the general meeting.  How much time have your school board members spent in the school during the day?  I beileve that school board members should be required to spend 2 days a month in the school working with a teacher for them to get a real understanding of the amount of effort that goes into teaching.  How many board members have been in the trenches with a principal or teacher, for a day, week, or a month?   Board members really need to experience this for themselves, kind of like that show "Undercover Boss."  Many board members have hidden agendas, and are not serving on the board for the right reason.(The purpose of a school board is to set policy.)  Every year there are trainings for school board members to attend  proffessional development work shops that help establish best practice as a board member.  Have you attended one of these conferences? How about the rest of your board members?  This should be a requirement, just as teachers are required to get act 48 hours.

What are you doing to promote these ideas?  What does this have to do with requiring everyone else to pay more for teacher's pensions than teachers do?

Salaries- teachers at the top of their career make could make depending on the district $60-$70 thousand dollars per year.   According to (http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary-pennsylvania.html) the average beginning salary for a teacher in PA  is $34,140 it takes seven to ten years or for a professional teacher to work their way up to the  " average teacher salary" of $53,258.  The median income for ALL employees in the state of PA is $60,000 based on the mose recent statictis on (http://www.paworkstats.state.pa.us/analyzer/qsincome.asp?cat=INC&session=INCOME&subsession=04&areaname=&incsource=2&currsubsessavail=52,53,51,63,60,04,03,59,50,64,55,02,56,58,57,01,61,62,54), which is still higher than average teacher salary.  One of the benefits of  becoming a teacher in PA has always been the defined pension.  Teachers were often  made fun of by their friends that had higher paying jobs, bragged about getting paid overtime, and had defined contibution plans that allowed their pensions to sky rocket when economic times were good.  Teachers were willing to accept a guarenteed benefit that had a much lower percent yield but guarenteed them a defined pension regardless.  This they chose to continue in the field of education because they would at least have a guaranteed pension.   Now that the economy is in trouble, those same people that laughed at teachers for only having a defined benefit at a significant lower interest rate are now upset with teachers.

You have just successfully compared teacher's average salaries to total median salaries for the whole state.  Unfortunately that isn't a worthwhile comparison and I'd argue median to median comparison's are worthless as well since no teacher should be compared to what entrepreneurs and doctors make among others.  Again, see that website promoting teaching in PA which stated a 132% difference in teacher's average salary to PA workers average salary.

I encourage members of the community that think teaching is easy and that they are overpaid to get on a school's subsitute teaching list and be a substitue teacher for a week.  By the end of the week, they will have a new respect for teachers.  I knew a chemistry major whose kids attended a private school.  The school was having a problem with high teacher turnover, in the math and science area.  She was very confident in herself and though that it would be a breeze.  She did not last more than 3 months.  She did not realize all of the effort that goes into developing a lesson and setting up lab and activites.  She said, " I was putting in 10-12 hour days, and working to the point of exhaustion."   One thing that the general public often over looks is the "Show factor" involved in teaching.  Students have come to expect a show, to be entertained, and teachers that want their students to do well have to develop well thoughtout meaningful lessons that will get the students engaged, wanting to learn, and to retain information.  In a normal 8 period day an instructor will "perform" to 6-7 classes (45-50 minutes) back to back with less than 3 minutes to use the restroom, if they can, because they are required to monitor the halls and their classrooms to for fights and bullying.  Many districts give the teachers a 25 minute lunch, that includes the time it takes to walk to the faculty room, get in line to use the microwave(if needed), eat and then report back to their classroom.  This leaves the teacher with about 15 minutes to eat, relax, or make a personal phone call.

First, most people wouldn't argue that the daily job of being a teacher is easy but you certainly get the vacation to help you cope with such a difficult day.  Second, you create a lesson plan once and then modify from there.  No one is starting over from scratch every year to teach the same material again.  Your 3 month quitter example is not representative of anything past the first year.  You also make it seem like teachers are working in sweat shops.  As one of the many Pennsylvanians out there that has attended school I'd argue that this scenario is largely BS because different grades and schools will run things differently.  For example, what happened to lunch time AND recess?  Not every teacher works recess every day.  So for the teachers in those grades that have recess they now have, what, an 8 hour day minus a 45 minute open block where they're not teaching class (from your example above), a 30 minute lunch break, and a 45 min-1 hr recess? (I don't specifically remember how long my lunch and recess were but they weren't 25 minutes in elementary school)  That sounds like a pretty relaxed day to get grading done without going outside their normal working hours.

Please remember everyone has a choice when it comes to deciding on a career path and it is never too late.  You should really ask yourself the question are teachers overpaid? Or do they work hard for the salary that they earn?  In our county there are unskilled laborers that make $80,000-$90,000 per in a job that did not require formal education and could be taught to many people through on the job training.

Many of those unskilled laborers are also part of a blood sucking union or in a government position.  $100k+/year toll booth workers don't deserve my money either!

it is clear that you have a lot of aggression and may have had a bad experience in a public school.  Please help me to understand your  paradigm so that I can better understanding of where you are coming from?

What do you do for a living?

How much do you make, all teachers salaries are public, so please share your salary with us?

What year did you graduate from high school?

Did you further your education after you graduate?  If so what type, apprentice, associates degree, bachlors, masters, doctorate?

If you furthered your education after graduation, how did you pay for it?  How much did it cost?

Do you supervise other workers?  How many? What happens to them if they have a poor work ethic and lack skills?

How would you respond to being held "directly reponsible" for the quaility, production, and performance of  20-30 workers, that you could not fire?  Should you be help accountable for them.  As an equal oppertunity employer, consider that 1/3 of those workers have disabilities that you must make individual and specific accomodatations.  You will never have to deal with situation because you can interview and select the best candidates for the positions that you have open.  I believe this is why it is so difficult for some people in business and industry to truly understand the jobs of public educators.

How much of your yearly salary do you actually pay in school taxes?

How much would it cost you to send your child to a private school?

How much would it cost to pay a sitter to watch your kid(s) during the day?

Calculate how much you would have to pay for day care for 180 days, 8 hours a day?  Would you be willing contribute that toward your child's education?

Then compare that to what you pay in school taxes?

This will help us both get a better understanding of what kind of deal you are getting with public education.

If you have kids that attend public school, what is their grade point average, how many hours a night do they study?

You talk about workers deserving "money,"  how should teachers salaries be funded?

Why do you think people with a advanced degrees in mathematics, chemistry, or physics choose to go into education when they could make so much more money in the private sector?

I agree with you and I can speak for most teachers, that social promotion is not acceptable, this only sets elementary students up for failure in high school.  This topic is something that is set by the admistration and with school boards as part of federal and state mandates. (i. e. No Child Left Behind Act)  You could help change this by running for your local school board.

Many teachers have kids held in for recess because they did not do their homework and many schools are starting only have one recess during the day now and stop recess in 6th grade.

I also agree with you with about about toll both works, bus drivers, and assemblely line workers making exhorbitant salaries in a careers that can be learned through,(on the job training) and that almost any average person could do.

I have worked in a high end restaurant (as a cook, waiter, and dishwasher), in a cement plant as a laborer, for a construction company that builds in-ground pools, for an engineering companies that repaired and replaced mining equipment.  Out of all the job experiences that I have had an opportunity to work, I can honestly say that teaching has been the most stressfull and changely job that I have ever had.

I could never fully understand the demands of your job as an engineer, do you feel that you are underpaid?  Do you feel that teachers are over paid?  

As an educated person, you really need to do more research about education and teaching so that you can have a better understanding of what goes into being a successful teacher.  Unfortunately the is no way that you can do this unless you are willing to go back to school or apply for an engineering teacher teaching position at a vocational school.  As long as you have 5 years of experience in your field, you could apply for the job and then attend school in the evenings to earn your Vocational I certification making significantly less as an engineer.  If you think that teachers really have it made, you really should consider doing this.

I do not understand the point you are trying to make here, it is almost contradicts your argument and could not find this information?

For starters PA is better than the national average student/teacher ratio which is on par with the ratio I saw at my private engineering university.  That's pretty good, certainly no reason to complain.  (NEA Rankings and Statistics 2008)

How much did it cost for you to attend your private engineering school?  Did it bother you that you had to contribute to paying your instructors' salaries? 

We both have a lot of learning to do. Together maybe we can both get the facts straight, and bring things into perspective.  The only way that we could really understand each others occupations would be if we change jobs for 6 months to a year,  and we both know that this can not happen.

Looking forward to hearing your responses.

Sincerely

Here's what you need to know.  I went to school for a long time to go to work in the PRIVATE sector.  I get paid to satisfy the needs of a paying customer that doesn't have to choose me for the work and I have to do it successfully for 40+ years in order to fund my own retirement plus up to 3% from my company's PROFIT.

The difference, and the problem, comes from the obvious issue that the public must pay for the public schools to operate.  We're the customer (by force) and you're the company and employees (by choice) that we're paying services for.  From there it is very simple.  Your performance/cost ratio sucks.  You can cry all you want about how hard it is but somehow those before you made it happen and did it better for less.  It's more expensive every year and we slip in world standings/grad levels/etc. every year.  Why would you expect raises then?  Why would you expect we'd be OK with providing you raises and even cushier retirement plans or healthcare than many of us?  Unions have a disgusting level of self entitlement that has been allowed to grow to the point that it very well might break a number of states if not our whole country while in damn near every comparison to the private sector (construction, teaching, whatever) they underperform.  Many teachers haven't earned the financial support they already have but they say they need more and I never ran into an ex-teacher when I served food to the homeless.  How needy are you?  Or is it greedy?

With respect to your job history, I bet none of the prior jobs gave you vacation for months at a time did they?  Increased benefits would usually lead someone to believe the work is more difficult....

You did not answer any of my questions.

What is your yearly salary? 

No one can identify who you really are.  I should hope that you are not embassered or ashmed to admit how much you make.

How much do you pay in school taxes?

Just answer the questions, the other people that post on this forum need to know your background to bring meaning to your statements.  Don't make a fool of yourself by dancing around the questions like some of Bill O'reilly's guest do.

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You are forgetting that teachers pay into their retirement.  This probably wasn't even a concern for you when  your investments were doing well, and I hope they still are doing well.

School Employees Have Always Paid Their Fair Share 
School employees have never stopped making pension contributions. Unlike the state and the school districts, we pay 7.5% of our income, whether times are good or times are bad – and regardless of fluctuations in the markets. 

School employees have always paid our fair share – and it is only fair for our employers to do the same.

This informational video should help you get your facts straight and understand where educators are coming from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWXnKvPL5-w&feature=player_embedded

You simply can compare a company to a school, here is why I believe this is true.  When you apply the logical arguements to the following example they simply are not valid.

The Superintendant is the CEO.

(In many districts the Super, is controlled by the school board, whose members require no degree or formal training on how a school system works.)

Essentially you have a multi-million dollar company being run by a group of amatures most likely have no experience in the classroom. (Could you imagine your company being run this way?)

The Principals are the managers.

The Teachers are the workers.

The Students are your raw material to be turned into products.  Steel Bar(raw material)----Shark cages(product)

The steel has to be of the same quaility and strenght in order for your product to be reliable.

This is exactly why you cannot compare a school to a company.  Your raw material is inconsistant and unreliable. There is no way around it.

Student ability is to raw material consistancy, as Student performance is the reliability of your shark cage.

Raw material consistancy is tested and has to meet standards in order for your shark cages to be reilable.

Student aiblity and attitude toward school is different for every student, you can not produce a consistant product when the raw material is not consistant.

 I'm not going to tell you anything more about me because you're trying to make this a personal and emotional issue and you'll probably try to discredit me on the basis that I make to much money to be this selfish.

Teacher's pay 7.5% and until a few months ago PA residents were paying over 8%.  This number is less an issue anyways than when teacher's are able to retire and other factors that make these pensions unaffordable.

Back on topic, I doubt you've read the bill.  Unless you're a politician in disguise that's trying to look good by "reducing costs" now then I just can't see why you'd be for this.  This does nothing but add to the long term costs.

My points have been made.  Can't wait for the new congress.